AR & Sistino firings?

[See Newsletters Here]

Name: E-mail:

See Newsletters Here

Fossil Posted by NanEngen

[Today]

• New Member! by GaryD [Today at 09:25:39 AM]
• IK Payments by John's Secret Identity [Today at 05:43:48 AM]
• SMELL (visual representat... by John's Secret Identity [September 06, 2010, 02:15:45 PM]
• What to look for in an ar... by Sarah [September 06, 2010, 10:22:32 AM]
• Tutorial on painting anim... by Sarah [September 06, 2010, 10:12:57 AM]
• VOTE in the HAIR competit... by Sarah [September 05, 2010, 09:50:59 PM]
• Does your content suck? by Sarah [September 04, 2010, 07:49:32 PM]

[JohnRizzuto]

well there is always a small glimmer of hope that they have learned from there past errors and will try to correct them.....  at least I am hoping....  still hoping to find an online site that can generate some steady income so I can quit my day job....lol   hoping is the word here....

[Andy Mercer]

self-rep pie=muy tasty 

truly, I think art.com is missing the boat and walking away from a huge opportunity to embrace the arts community. pity with a company name like art.com.

I deal with a business in my day job.. which managed to go from zilch to mega millions in less than ten years.. all the while service was abjectly poor.. communication was sporadic.. the product range extended out of all recognition so that most folk selling it were bewildered and simply couldn't keep up with the changes. They started with a high status product and have managed to devalue it. You know discounted Ferrari's at Wallmart syndrome. In fact they employed Reps who were more like car salesmen.. apologies to car salesmen.  If you had a complaint they ignored you.. or told you it was your fault (when it wasn't). In short they thought they could treat folk exactly as they liked because they were a success despite everything. 

All in all the company was pretty well a shambles.. they just managed to hit on the right product at the right time at the right price.. and for the last ten years have cleaned up. The problem is because they were lucky once they think they have some divine wisdom and are going to be able to repeat it.. so they keep bringing out new products at higher prices.. and messing about with the ranges etc.. you see they never planned for success in the first place so have no understanding about planning for the future. But they completely lack the understanding required.. and have no vision for the company other than the fast buck. They let everyone under the sun and with little knowledge sell the original successful product and simply devalued it.. and alienated specialist folks who had helped them get where they were.

They only bring in people to the company who agree with them and are sycophantic.. because if they brought in real expertise they would immediately be shown up for the lucky amateurs they are. So the decisions generally are poor but despite everything they still have a product people want and have almost a monopoly position and make big profits.

For me that pretty well sums up art.com. They show many similar signs.. a general lack of vision.. they have several website but no clear vision of what they want from them or how they fit together.. vague public comments and defensive when criticised.. pushy for quick profit.. when the way to win long term is to develop relationships with the artists and use their current market dominance to put pressure on the competition.. plain stupid decisions. They have been successful simply because they were in the right place at the right time with the right domain name when the market changed and have succeeded despite themselves... because as I see it they really have little idea how to develop a business in the conventional way.

I reckon they make substantial income from artist subscriptions.. and really would be amazed if they wanted to lose that income. I suppose it would confirm the argument that they simply have no idea about how to run a shop let alone a leading business.   

2010 meeting with Bank Manager to agree extended overdraft due to poorer than anticipated results..

Bank manager : How much did you make from artist subscriptions in 2006 ?

Mr Art Dotcom : $600k

Bank manager : Income appears to be down by $590k So how much did you make from artist subscriptions in 2008 ?   

Mr Art Dotcom : Ok right man.. we decided it was far too much trouble and stopped all that.. jeez they are a bunch of moaners.. and they keep sending so many pictures.. what are we supposed to do with them all ? At least Picasso is dead so he can't send any more. So we hit on the great plan of getting them to send their images to a new site called.. blackhole4art.com which no one would see.. get it ?

Bank manager : And how much did you make from this site ?

Mr Art Dotcom : Err.. not a lot but at least we could forget all about them.

Bank manager : Right I seeeeeeee..... so for 600k your saying it was too much trouble ? ^^

Snip..

Bank Manager : Certainly we will lend you the money but we will insist on personnel changes and bringing in outside expertise to the board.

(P.S. I'm available)

The next wave of internet art companies will have grown more slowly and coherently and will gain position by being clever, professional and generally better at running their businesses. Art.com need to get their act together soon because their competitors are gaining ground, they smell blood and they must be gleefully watching the mess at art.com.  Of course they won't listen.

[Arcturus]

Well, the dreaded day is here.  I am not sure why they chose a Saturday....aren't they off on weekends?  I went to Artist Rising and I want to post what they have to entice people to sign up....

Sell

You provide the talent and we?ll help you sell it.

Convert your original artwork into Print-on-Demand products that can continually generate revenue
Get access to sales channels, such as the Sistino Marketplace, to exhibit and sell your work
Take advantage of Art.com, Inc?s reputation among millions of art buyers throughout the world
Get the backing of an established web company with fully dedicated resources to support your art sales - including infrastructure, technology, marketing, and distribution to fulfill your orders


 Notice the statement "Take advantage of Art.com's reputation...."  They are committing fraud by this statement. I don't care how stupid at business they are. This has been up for six months and they have been accepting money from artists that read and believe this. Do I just live in an alternate reality?  One where you take responsibility for what you say?  If they "depend" on funds generated from OAP artists to enhance the bottom line, they are knowingly committing fraud...swindling...stealing....by encouraging artists to pay in return for an empty promise.  It isn't bumbling, lame executives. I have no business degree and I am an artist for God's sake and even I can understand this.

[Andy Mercer]

I don't really disagree with what you are saying.. look at the history of this board.. almost all of us were voicing our concerns about the changes from the start. This is one of the reasons this board started.

It just happens to be my opinion that it is incompetence rather than deliberate.. would anyone really devise a serious plan to provide close to zero sales and take subscriptions.. in my view they tried changes which haven't worked. I'm pretty sure they could argue they actually do provide everything you sign up for in the terms and conditions... I don't see any guarantee to provide sales. 

But IMO the longer they accept subscriptions knowing it is a failure the more a case for fraud can be made.  So great you win your case and you might even get your subscription back.. but you still have sold zero pictures.

[Arcturus]

Andy,
  I reread my post and I promise I wasn't trying to be beligerent(sp) with you.  I came off sounding that way and I am sorry.  I am just so frustrated with the total lack of respect to artists in general.  Art.com and everything in between, copyright laws, publishers.....all of it. Artists do the lion's share of creating a unique product and we are at the bottom of the fishbowl buried in the gravel somewhere. 10%...15%....it is ridiculous. Everyone else is respected, their bottom line is covered and they make a profit and artists should thank them and be happy they are doing this for us.  I agree with your other post about needing to acknowledge the people/artists valuable contribution and backing it up with respect and dignity. I have spent the better half of my adult life working at my art and I deserve better.  We agree.

[Sarah]

There is so much common sense in this thread that I have nothing to add, at the moment. Except to confirm what Andy said about the reason this board was started.

I hesitate to reveal this, but art.com is one reason why this forum was originally started. I was so upset and disappointed with them and their bumbling incompetence and the way they treat artists that I needed somewhere to vent my extreme frustration and hopefully try to warn other artists.

And another equally frustrated artist suggested a public forum. And then others contributed ideas to move things forward, and it kinda took off from there... isn't it amazing how things evolve?

Uh oh - does this mean we owe art.com thanks for motivating us to build such a great community? 

Nah!

[Andy Mercer]

Andy,
  I reread my post and I promise I wasn't trying to be beligerent(sp) with you.  I came off sounding that way and I am sorry.  I am just so frustrated with the total lack of respect to artists in general. 

No problem..

I know we could have a major thread on that one. I do think part of the problem is the fact that artists tend to work in isolation and so I'm glad a board like this demonstrates that artists of very different persuasions can work together on the simple logistics of getting their work known.

This board started as a reaction to the bumbling ineptitude (I like that one) at art.com but has now developed into an worthwhile independent resource for and by artists working co-operatively. Any new sites wanting to get into the internet art game only have to look here for some very good advice on the way to do things. We know already that the major players are taking notice of what is being said here.. not a bad achievement in just a few months.

Don't let the b****ds get you down.. get organised.. and spread the word. 
 

[Sarah]

Veering a bit... I just took a peek at the art.com forum and some of the artists there were worrying that the forum might go blip and disappear.

I told them about this forum, so I hope they'll come visit us.

[Arcturus]

Sarah,
  Was there no mention of the "new" way to list art on Art.com? Why do the artists think the forum is going to disappear?  Why doesn't Art.com have to be accountable.  You know, I am outside of Raleigh where they started and still have offices.  I am seriously thinking of filing a complaint with the Attorney General......and I mean seriously.

[Arcturus]

Alright all you NC artists....if you are mad as I am and not gonna take it anymore here is info for you to file a complaint. I am.....

Consumer Protection
Attorney General Roy Cooper's Consumer Protection Division works to protect the public from unfair and deceptive business practices. Consumers who've been the victim of a fraud or scam can seek help from Consumer Protection specialists.

Consumers can file a complaint with our office and we will work to resolve the situation. In cases where there is a pattern of illegal business practices, the Consumer Protection Division may take legal action to enforce the law on behalf of the public. The office cannot, however, represent individuals in their private legal disputes.

The Consumer Protection Division also works to educate consumers so that they can avoid problems from the start. See our consumer tips on a wide range of topics, from automobiles to work-at-home schemes and everything in between.

Our office can also help health care consumers who have questions about or are having problems with their managed care company through our Managed Care Patient Assistance Program .

If you think you've been the victim of an illegal business deal, or if you want to learn to be a smarter consumer, contact Attorney General Roy Cooper's Consumer Protection Division via this website or by telephone toll-free within North Carolina at (877)-5-NO-SCAM.



I imagine that every state has an attorney general and if enough of us complain we can bring down the giant one sling shot at a time....

[Sarah]

Sarah,
  Was there no mention of the "new" way to list art on Art.com?

 

 

[JohnRizzuto]

Well, I am mad as many anyone about art.com and I have been voicing concerns since the "changes" started way back.  One thing I have to say is that anyone who wants to file some fraud claim or some illegal business practice claim is just wasting there time.  There was no fraud here.  As Andy and others have stated, maybe some poor business decisions and communications but that is about it.  You can not sue some business because they are dumb...unless it is gross negligence.... which I doubt is the case with art.com

Technically, art.com has given artists a few places to display there work and offer them to sale to the public....  that is all they have to do..  from the post that says take advantage of art.com reputation with art buyers and the sistino marketplace....  well they have met both of these criterias....  our works are available on Sistino and art.com is more than likely the number one online art site (hence the reputation argument)..... so how would you prove your point?   trust me I am pissed and wish things were differently... but I am also a big boy and I knew going in what could happen.... I read all the fine print so I know what art.com is obligated to do for us versus what we wish they would do....  the only thing that artists can do is voice there opinion (which has been done) and then wait and see what art.com does.  Then you have a decision.  Stay or leave.

[Arcturus]

John,
  I disagree.  I am not going to sue anyone.  I am going to file a complaint with my Attorney General, Roy Cooper.  If any other artist feels like they were "baited and switched" they can go to  http://www.ncdoj.com/consumerprotection/cp_about.jsp  and it will give you links to print off a complaint form that you can fill out and send to the attorney general.  Every state has an attorney general and all you have to do is go to google and do a search. Art.com took money from me in November of 2006 ,in return I got an online protfolio and 64 total uploads, of which I only got to upload 27 because they froze my ability to upload after that, to sell my art on Art.com as posters and prints.  I started making money within a week after my art was put on Art.com so I was thrilled and had high hopes. After Christmas I was told that things were changing and how good it would be. I sent customers there and refered people to the site. It was fraud and it was bait and switch.  I signed up and paid money to be on Art.com, not AR or Sistino. I am not acting like a spoiled child.  I am acting like a responsible, mature adult and I demand they be accountable. I did make a decision and I left but I also left with them owing me money.  I don't have to prove my point in a court of law. I have been ripped off and that is why my state attorney general will investigate it. I don't have to pay a penny.  All it takes is to download and print off a complaint form, fill it out and send it in. It just takes a little of my time and some integrity, John.

[bluerabbit]

In the 'sad but true' catagory Art.com gets a lot of traffic. And i think its because their name is "ART.COM" and obviously not because they are great business men. 

Yes, the URL helps. but it's more than that. Prints are a volume business. Look at a brick and mortar poster shop (if there are any left--art.com killed the one in our mall--not that I am crying). They did not sell our work--LOL!! They sold what was, for better or worse, very popular. Selling work by famous (not necessarily dead) and trendy artists makes money. The rest of us, well, I don't know about you, but I'm, unfortunately, neither famous nor trendy. I enjoyed the ride on the art.com train while it lasted. I have nothing to lose by sticking around to find out what happens.

[Arcturus]

Well, here we are...it is July 3rd. Has anyone heard what the new way to list art on Art.com will be?


I just went and read through their "Join us" speech and I am guessing Art.com isn't available anymore from the implied lingo.  They say that you have the "advantage of Art.com's RESOURCES " and "REPUTATION" but say Sistino and your AR homepage are the outlets to sell. Now when will they have the backbone to tell the artists to their faces?

[Sarah]

Now when will they have the backbone to tell the artists to their faces?

Good question...

[revad-via-proxy]

Well I think they must be reading this thread as the AR email 'Important Update for Member Artists' to all members today tries to spell things out I think and allows me to say:

Sistino is Dead.

Mind you we can only wait and see if they get a handle on all this in the time-scales they have set themselves. I won't hold my breath as they are still unresponsive when requesting help. I emailed the help address four days ago asking them to explain why correctly deleted images still appear in my traffic report weeks after they were deleted and to date no reply.

[Arcturus]

I received the same email as everyone although I am deleted from AR/Sistino/Art.com.  I don't have a gripe with them anymore because they are going to refund my membership fee since I joined in November 2006 and if they send me that and the remaining royalty money I will just move on and consider this a life lesson. After what they have done it is a wonder that anyone would trust anything involving this company.

[Wilson]

No more ROYALTY for services/framing! How sad is that? They called this "corporate royalty structure. I see it as corporate greed!

[Amie]

No more ROYALTY for services/framing! How sad is that? They called this "corporate royalty structure. I see it as corporate greed!

Everyone knows that framing is where the real money is. I am not surprised to see it taken off the table.

[JohnRizzuto]

Typically, I prefer a little foreplay before getting this kind of treatment....   

[Amie]

Typically, I prefer a little foreplay before getting this kind of treatment....   

you made me snarf my coffee!

[JohnRizzuto]

:-)

what a "sleezy" business this is....  they know they have you over the barrell so they always find these small ways to stick it to you.....  thats why you cant do business with "The Man"

[Amie]

well, one way to beat the man at his own game is to have someone purchase one copy of every single print you have available on art.com  before the deadline so you can stay in the game. yeah, it's more money in art.com's pocket, but for a relatively small investment it keeps you on that venue per their rules 

[JohnRizzuto]

I hear ya Amie.... I have 571 images on art.com and probably 90% have sold at least one image so I am not worried about losing what I have already... I am more concerned with the ability to add new prints...  I mean they are basing it on sales from A/R which in my case is almost zilch...  the other criteria is based on staff selections...   and what I have seen from A/R and Sistino is that it is only the "stooges" that get front page promotion...   so if you act nice forums and tell everyone how wonderful art.com is then you will get selected to be on art.com....  oh please give me a break... for a 15% commission on a max $30 sale they can go blow it out their arse....

[Tags:]

Jump to: Please select a destination: ----------------------------- Official Forum Business - Read Only ----------------------------- => Forum Policies - Please Read Before Posting => OVA Terms of Service => OVA PRO membership => Forum Announcements => Board Modifications ----------------------------- OVA Art Competitions ----------------------------- => SMELLS (visual representation of) => HAIR => SCANNER ART => Sounds - visual representation of => Previous Competition Topics ===> "Water" Competition - May 2008 ===> "FACES" June 08 competition ===> "MACRO" Competition ===> ABSTRACT ===> BLACK & WHITE ART ===> HOLIDAY MACRO ===> MUSIC ===> MATERIALS ===> EMOTIONS ===> MOVEMENT & TRANSPORTATION ===> COMPLEMENTARY COLORS ===> WILDLIFE ===> HOLIDAY COLOR ===> BIRDS OF A FEATHER ===> OVERDONE or CLICHE => Competition Rules - Please READ before entering images => General Competition Topics => FOOD ----------------------------- General Category ----------------------------- => Welcome New Members! => Calendar Events ----------------------------- Online Art Selling Sites ----------------------------- ===> artbyus.com ===> Art.com ===> artwanted.com ===> Boundlessgallery.com ===> cafepress.com ===> Deviantart.com ===> ebay.com ===> EBSQart.com ===> etsy.com ===> Imagekind.com ===> Lulu.com ===> RedBubble.com ===> UK and European Sites ===> yessy.com ===> zazzle.com ----------------------------- Critiques, Feedback, BRAGS ----------------------------- => Great Artists Discovered by Us ===> May 2010 Critiques ----------------------------- Marketing ----------------------------- ===> Art Blogs ===> Search Engine Optimization ----------------------------- Great Links & Learning ----------------------------- => Painting Resources => Photography Resources => Master Classes => Location, location, location  

Advanced search

Something Fishy Here Posted by Buckwhite in SMELLS (visual representation of)

[Current Competitions]

Competition Rules
Competition Topics

Current Competitions

HAIR -
VOTE!

SMELLS - Entries open
Discussion & Details

Upcoming Competitions
Mega: BIG things
Creepy Crawly
Doorways
Speed
Your Idea of Heaven

[Official]

•    Official
•    Forum Business
•    PRO & Amazon
•    Sell on Amazon
•    PRO membership
•    OVA on Amazon
•    Submit Art
•    Competitions
•    Calls for Art
•    Show your work
•    Discovered Artists
•    Critiques
•    Saturday Show Your Stuff
•    Critique Panel Events
•    Individual Critiques
•    General
•    General
•    Welcome New Members
•    Art-Selling Sites
•    Art Sites & PODs
•    Marketing Your Art
•    Marketing
•    Selling & Publishing
•    Resources
•    ARTIST RESOURCES
•    Outstanding Links
•    Image Editing
•    OVA Galleries
•    Winners
•    Member Gallery 2010
•    Member Gallery 2009
•    Member Gallery 2008
•    All Galleries