AR & Sistino firings?

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Come Inside My Parlour Posted by Cate

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[JohnRizzuto]

oh please... Assit. Comptroller.... they get paid peanuts....lol  I will hold out for Chief Operating Officer with plenty of pre-IPO stock options and a nice 7-figure golden parachute clause...   when you have that all prepared we can talk...lol

[JimNest]

I'll see what I can do 

So Sistino appears to be out, Art.com will proceed without us (ie the emerging artists) and keep only a small number of our offerings on Art.com and allposters.com.  Does not sound too hopeful. 

[MonikaS]

This whole situation with Art.com regarding Sistino & AR reminds me my past baaad dates. All talk no action and when they talk, nothing comes out from their mouth you want to hear or listen to.

[Mark]

...reminds me my past baaad dates. All talk no action and when they talk, nothing comes out from their mouth you want to hear or listen to.

Waddya expect from California guys? 

[MonikaS]

Hm, I dont recall narrowing my database..I mean datebase, My husband actually a pretty alltogether Californian 

[bjdavey]

In a recent Art Print Issues blog on how being a poster publisher was not getting easier, I postulated that the news about Art.com's announcement it was going after the hospitality and contract design markets for art and framing was a bad thing for publishers. That is still the case. But, I also postulated that the rise (pardon the pun) of the online sites like AR and IK for self-represented artists was probably dinging the outlook for publishers.

To follow this thread and learn Art.com is laying off workers in its AR division changes that perspective. I posted another entry just now titled, Bad News Rising - Is the Trouble at Art.com and the Atlanta Decor Expo Show Related? http://barneydavey.blogs.com/printmarket/2007/06/bad-news-rising.html

I'm not suggesting conspiracy here, just that two very signficant marketing venues which have become vital to many artists as vehicles to get work to market simultaneously have their wheels falling off. I am not yet understanding the correlation, but rather merely observing this unique period in time and the curious, saddening maddening things occurring at both operations. That they operate in different markets makes it more intriguing to try and understand what is going on with Art.com and the Atlanta Deco Expo shows. And, for artists, it's clearly a time to evaluate and re-evaluate their own situations.

[JSlugman]

Great reading, I have to say I'm learning quite a bit from all participants (even from Monika's dating experiences). Thanks to all for posting as I know it takes time away from doing what we love: creating art.

OK, creating art and perhaps having a drink or two.

[Sarah]

Barney, thank you for this most recent article. I especially like your emphasis on how artists may be affected by the happenings at art.com.

I did post a comment, both in appreciation and to clear up a point of possible confusion. Your article mentioned that this forum is funded by Imagekind, which actually is not the case. OVA is a completely independent forum, and I intend it to stay that way. I think artists need somewhere to share their honest opinions and comments on art selling sites. Imagekind has earned a lot of praise, but also some lumps here too. 

I can see how it's confusing, though, since I moderate both forums and work for Imagekind.

Again, I'm very grateful for the mention in your article. Thanks!

[bluerabbit]

I think there are probably as many authors here as painters! Your article and your background are fascinating. I did not know that the Decor shows were having trouble. That is a shame. I thought Decor's slender issue was just a seasonal thing. Magazines do go through cycles, as you know. I hope their advertising slump is merely temporary. It is an outstanding publication.

As you have discovered in the process of self-publishing your books , the internet and POD technology are displacing the gatekeepers. You did not have to submit your work to dozens of publishers and steel yourself for rejections. You did not have to hear that your manuscript had too limited an appeal. You merely edited and marketed the work yourself.

The same holds true for artists and traditional poster publishers. AR/Sistino is definitely self-publishing. When people buy their own posters, it's what we called in the book biz "vanity press". We did not have to submit our slides/files to art directors at publishing houses and risk rejection slips. We merely uploaded files and crossed our fingers. Art.com could show our pieces with much less risk than a traditional house because bandwidth is much less expensive than catalog space. Some artists on the former OAP, now AR/Sistino have a track record and experience in this market, but most do not. Some will do very well, but most of us will make a few sales, receive a few checks, and be happy that out there in internet land, some people, other than our relatives, like our work.

Art.com and AR/Sistino are very different creatures. Art.com does, indeed, compete with traditional publishers, even as it uses them as suppliers. They have discovered some artists through their OAP program that were either disenchanted with their publishers (who do not, in general, have that good a name among artists, by the way), or had never found appropriate representation. They have added these fresh works to their proven sellers. It's cynical, but I think that, having made these discoveries, art.com was ready to jettison OAP. The original art program was taking increasing amounts of reviewing and set-up time and, I would guess, not generating a sufficient return. With AR/Sistino, they offered the artists a consolation prize, with the idea that painters and photographers would subsidize the operation. The problem is that the new sites had relatively show traffic and very few sales, which, naturally, disappointed the artists.

I think you may be right about the internet having an effect on traditional art publishing. I do not think art.com's problems with AR/Sistino have anything to do with larger trends in that market. I think they intend to refocus their expansion efforts on marketing their strongest products, and, I think you are right to worry about margins.

[bjdavey]

Sarah,

Thanks for clearing up my confusion. Your tag line gives the impression this board is part of OVA. I'm pleased to know it is not as having an independent voice gives it the cred it needs to do service to the community who participate here.

All the best,

Barney

[Sarah]

You know, Barney, I can see how it would. I added that to my signature in the interests of full disclosure and transparency. Wonder if I can improve it to be clearer... Thanks for letting me know.

I think artists need an independent place to vent to our heart's content, and express honest opinions. I place a high value on these independent voices.

After going to work for Imagekind, I was so lucky that James was able and willing to step in and handle things when I can't. I stay out of certain threads, to avoid potential conflicts of interest, and I can do that because of James. He's a jewel.

And I appreciate that Imagekind values the feedback here, and is comfortable with me moderating both this forum and the Imagekind forum too.

But I digress... 

[Sarah]

Art.com and AR/Sistino are very different creatures. Art.com does, indeed, compete with traditional publishers, even as it uses them as suppliers. They have discovered some artists through their OAP program that were either disenchanted with their publishers (who do not, in general, have that good a name among artists, by the way), or had never found appropriate representation. They have added these fresh works to their proven sellers. It's cynical, but I think that, having made these discoveries, art.com was ready to jettison OAP. The original art program was taking increasing amounts of reviewing and set-up time and, I would guess, not generating a sufficient return. With AR/Sistino, they offered the artists a consolation prize, with the idea that painters and photographers would subsidize the operation. The problem is that the new sites had relatively show traffic and very few sales, which, naturally, disappointed the artists.

This is one of the more plausible possible explanations I've seen so far for recent events, from the artists' point of view.

[JSlugman]

He's a jewel.

A fat, hairy, flippant jewel; but I agree nonetheless.

 

[Sarah]

You're not fooling me; I know you're blushing.

[JSlugman]

Aw, shucks...

[revad-via-proxy]

I deleted every image bar one which I have left to keep my account active and allow for a bit of advertising just in-case anyone still looks for my work there. I may even put it back on Sistino for the same reason.

Certainly the process I followed seems to have worked cleanly anyway.

When I said the above earlier in the thread it appears I spoke too soon as the AR activity report on my account is still reporting views of images a week after I deleted them. How people are finding them I do not know as I can't see them myself and they are not returned in any search I have formulated based on my own knowledge of the tags that were once there.

So I can only conclude one of two possibilities: either AR/Sistino lie when they report an image has been removed from sale and deleted and they still appear in some search result, or their reports are completed screwed and reporting false hits.

Either way it only goes to confirm my opinion of the company and my decision to leave them (eevveennttuuaallllyy).

[Sarah]

I know! That's what annoyed me so much. I deleted them from my gallery, but they still appeared in searches. Nor could I upload more to replace them.

I very clearly said, "look", I deleted them but they're still there." They said, "here's the correct way to delete them." I said, "I didn't know that, so how do I delete them NOW?" No answer ever again.

I searched for you, Dave, and found your one image on Sistino. Amusingly, there was also a little sentence, "did you mean ready." No, you bozos, I meant REVAD. But since they don't come up in searches, how the hell can they be getting views?

[bjdavey]

I was involved in an interesting thread on Wet Canvas titled, How do you feel about having your work published or publishing your own work? . It included a poll. The topic wandered to self-publishiing via sites such as AR, Sistino and IK. Timelady, who is an institution  with a mere 6,697 posts and moderator decided to give AR a try. She had not been a big fan of self-representation via the print market, but got enthused by reading some of the posts.

Her latest post to the thread shows pure exasperation with the process those sites put artists through. You can draw your own conclusions as to how that reaction will help or hinder AR and Sistino.

Meanwhile, I'm working on a post for my blog to talk about the announcement that Wet Canvas has been bought by F+W Publications. It publishes The Artist's Magazine and several other titles for artists. Corporate ownership is bound to change things on WC. Time will tell how.

[revad-via-proxy]

Sarah, maybe my images appear in some fixed list somewhere that doesn't get updated automatically when they are deleted.It is also entirely possible that there are links still in place to a page where an image can be viewed but the actual image may not be there. I.e. the page still exists but the image is gone and the AR/Sistino reporting system is just recording that the page has been visited. It could even be that someone has my images bookmarked and is returning to see them only to find a blank image.

Of course all of this points to some shoddy site design, but why should we be surprised by that !!!

Barney, in the end I guess we get what we pay for and as a free account costs nothing the service is 'designed' to match.

[Arcturus]

 Hi,  , I am new here.  I came to this forum to try and find out what is happening on Art.com. Last week I wrote to AR support and asked them " If I wanted to delete my gallery from AR/Sistino?Art.com how would I do it?"  I received an email informing me they had deleted my gallery as I requested and would I be so kind as to tell them why I was leaving. I was surprised they had gone ahead and deleted me but I was very concerned about the nonpayment of royalties, the lack of information, and the crappy record keeping. I emailed them my concerns and was told that all of my images had been deleted out of the system.  Well today I can still go on Goggle and find them at Amazon and in various searches on the web although not on Art.com. They still owe me money .  I told them I feel like I was baited and switched.  I joined Art.com and then they changed everything. The crazy part is everyone that is joining right now assumes they will be on Art.com.  Nothing is mentioned when you join that you are basicly paying for a "website" and you could be invited to be on Allposters and if you do well on Allposters you might get an invite to Art.com.  Isn't that illegal?  I told the support team I felt like they were trying to purge artists because the site is too congested. They didn't respond. This thread is the only place I can come to find out what is going down. Could anyone that is still a member please post and tell what they announce on June 30th?  I can't access the forum anymore....thanks!

[bluerabbit]

Nothing yet. I will let you know, if others don't. There are many possibilities.

[Sarah]

I've always found it "interesting" that only registered members could read their forum. 

[bluerabbit]

Yes, that is an interesting point.

[Amie]

I've always found it "interesting" that only registered members could read their forum. 

A lot of site have members-only forums (like EBSQ) although ours used to be totally public. We went private for the bulk of our boards at the request of our membership at the time. We still have a public component to our forums, though, and I've been trying to nudge folks to go public with more sections for a while now, but our active forum folks like their walled garden.

[Sarah]

I think having part private and part public makes a lot of sense, and we may eventually do that here too.

It's just that when the whole forum  is locked away from public view, I wonder why...

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